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  • in reply to: Off my trolley getting a replacement trolley #4726
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Chris Brown Trailers,  at http://www.cbcoverstore.co.uk,   produces a combi trailer which appears very similar to the West Mersea ones.    When I collected GP14 no. 3 (no less) for eventual restoration I bought one of his launching trolleys,  on his assurance that it would fit my West Mersea roadbase,  which it duly did.

     

    My experience of it is limited,  as it has been used thus far only to transport the boat home and to store her pending work,  but it appears to be well made and to be dimensionally fully compatible with the West Mersea product.

     

    At least it would be worth your while enquiring from them.

     

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: GP14 Blue Paint #4598
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Don’t you just love computers!!! ….    I have just typed a reply,  and lost the lot during the final stages of typing!

     

    Short answer,  for your particular situation and boat;   I suggest that you consider Toplac,  by International Paints.    The equivalent conventional paint by Epifanes or Hempel/Blakes may well be equally good,  but I have no first-hand experience of them,  whereas I do have first-hand experience of Toplac,  and it is very readily available from most larger marine chandlers and also a fair proportion of smaller ones.   I have used it with outstanding success on a Series 1 (i.e. wooden) GP14,  and a friend has used it with similar success on the restoration of a Mk 2 (i.e. GRP) GP14.

     

    If you intend stripping and repainting anyway there in no need to obtain an exact match of colour;   this is the time to consider whether you wish to stay with (approximately) the same colour or alternatively change the colour scheme.

     

    Avoid two-pot paints;   marvellous though they are,  you <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>must not</span> apply them on top of existing one-pot finishes.    So unless you know <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>beyond doubt</span> that your existing paint is two-pot,  which is unlikely in the circumstances,  you can’t safely use two-pot paints unless you are prepared to remove every last bit of the existing paint.

     

    One-pot polyurethanes do exist,  and indeed are made by the major yacht paint manufacturers,  but back in the sixties and seventies I tried them and was disappointed.   I have not tried them since,  but my reading of International Paints’ own website  –  and they make the stuff  –  tends only to reinforce my opinion (or bigotry,  call it what you will) that they are an unfortunate half-way house;    they do not offer the spectacular durability and gloss and hardness of two-pot products,  not the flexibility and gloss of the best conventional paints.

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Deck Replacement #4555
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I have just come back to this,  and checked a bit more on Robbins’ prices.   As you rightly say,  a 2500 x 1220 sheet of 4 mm (3-ply) bog standard Elite marine ply is £32.24 plus VAT.   The equivalent in 5 mm (5-ply) is £46.90 plus VAT.   The difference is not large,  and pales into insignificance by comparison with the total cost of the project,  and by comparison with teh value of your time;   the important thing is to make the right decision.

     

    It would be well worth considering carefully which of the two to go for;  if your the expected use of the boat the 5 mm is preferable it would then be a pity to spoil the ship for a ha’p’worth of tar.   The class rules specify 4 mm minimum,  but a great many boats are built with 5 mm decks.    I think that the “right” thickness depends on how you expect the boat to be used.

     

    I understand  –  very much at secondhand!)  –  that top racers are likely to prefer 4mm because it is lighter.    However their boats are lovingly caressed,  except when  driving hard during a race,  and in terms of ensuring that the boats never suffer abuse they probably have an easy life.

     

    For a boat used for cruising,  or training,  there may well be more risk of higher localised loads on the deck (e.g. someone standing on it,  rather than sitting,  or carelessly plonking something heavy down on the deck).   For a boat that may suffer that sot of treatment from time to time,  even if only occasionally,  it is probably worth going for 5 mm.    When I had a new series 2 boat professionally built for me in 2005/6 specifically as a cruising boat the builder (Tim Harper) opted for 5 mm as standard,  and the boat still came out marginally under weight,  so carries corrector weights;   and I have absolutely no worries about her strength.

     

    Oliver

     

    in reply to: Deck Replacement #4539
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Over to some of our Scottish members to now pick this up;    do you know of any local firms who may be able to help?

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Deck Replacement #4535
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I don’t know whether they are still doing them,  but Fyne Boats used to sell kits of parts for the GP14,  and have been known in the past to supply individual panels on request.    http://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk

    Local wood joiners,  or even boatbuilders (if any in your area) for the limited assistance you suggest would also be worth considering.

    Where are you based?

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Deck Replacement #4532
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    If you are joining pieces of ply for the side decks a scarf joint (a.k.a. scarph joint) is neater than just a butt joint.    I appreciate your comment that you are no joiner,  but I wonder whether you have a contact who could make that joint for you?    It is not technically difficult,  but it does require a modicum of skill,  and the use of a workbench (or other good sturdy flat surface) as well as a plane and other basic hand tools.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Deck Replacement #4527
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    A handful of other details:

     

    It seems that you are intending to remove the rubbing strakes,  and replace them once the work on the decks is finished.   Good.   In that case,  cut the outside edge of your new decks to slightly proud of the hull,  and plane / surform / sand it flush once they are fitted and glued down.   Then of course coat the newly exposed edges with epoxy,  preferably doing this as you glue the rubbing strakes back on.

     

    Epoxy the underside of the ply as well as the top,  particularly if you are using non-marine ply.    If you use genuine marine ply you would get away with not epoxying the underside,  although best practice for the best long term job would still be to epoxy both sides.

     

    5 coats of varnish is rather pushing your luck;  that is just about the absolute minimum.   I would normally expect to be just starting to get an acceptable finish,  and a coating that will last reasonably well,  at six coats,  and I normally aim for about nine.    That is not of course nine times the thickness of a single coat,  because I sand down alternate coats moderately heavily;    it is possibly – and I am guessing  –  about six times the thickness of a single coat once all the sanding is taken into account.

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Deck Replacement #4526
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Deck ply;   you will find that 6 mm thickness of the proper stuff,  i.e. marine ply  –  which I appreciate you can’t afford  –  is far heavier than the boat normally needs,  and would make the boat unduly heavy.    The minimum is 4 mm,  but for heavy duty use (including training,  and cruising)  many people prefer 5 mm.     6 mm would be somewhat over the top.

     

    Since you are having to use an intrinsically less strong type of plywood,  you may in fact need the extra thickness,  but that is something for you to assess in the light of this information.

     

    A few other points about exterior grade non-marine ply:

     

    I used it once for a very temporary and experimental rudder blade on the big boat,   when I wanted to try out a new profile before making a good one with the proper materials.    I was horrified to find that top veneer of the brand new ply was starting to delaminate even in my workshop,  before being exposed to any weather,  as soon as I started to cut it,  and I also found breaks in the interior laminations.    So if you have to use exterior grade,  treat it with caution,  be very selective in whom you buy it from,  and also be very selective in checking the individual sheets before purchase.

     

    <span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>When I made my experimental rudder blade I coated the finished blade with epoxy,  and then three layers of woven glass mat.   The result was that it was a little too good  –  so it stayed in service longer than I originally intended;    but it was nonetheless still not good enough,  and snapped off in moderate swell off the Farne Islands,  with around 20 miles still to go to make port at Amble.   So be warned …</span>

     

    I think that if I were doing the job in non -marine ply I would at the very least coat both sides of the ply in epoxy,  and all the edges.     Some of that is best done during construction,  rather than beforehand;  mark out where the joints are going to go,  and leave those uncoated,  so that when you assemble and glue up you can do so with wet epoxy direct onto bare wood.    If you coat everything first,  you will find considerable difficulty in getting neat joints because of the thickness of cured epoxy getting in the way of the joint you are trying to make.

     

    Finally,  given that you are thinking of a greater thickness than you would need for the proper material,  and the possibly greater expenditure on epoxy,  it might be worth doing two costings before you start;   one using 5 mm or 6 mm exterior ply,  and one using 4 mm marine ply.   Make sure that you include <b>all </b>the materials in the costing,  not just the wood,  and the marine ply doesn’t have to be the very swish stripey sapele;    basic marine ply may well be a less expensive choice and should be perfectly adequate.   Only when you have the total costings for both routes can you decide whether the cheese-paring approach is justified;   if the saving is going to be very modest and the end result is likely to be much inferior it may well be a false economy.

     

    That is before you even start to consider the value of your time …

     

    Hope this helps,

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Technical Section ? #4473
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I agree that wood dust does go very dark in colour.  Microgranules tend to be very white,  so perhaps a mixture of the two.   I confess I have not tried colloidal silica.

    There does indeed seem to be a problem with the link,  although I have not debugged quite why.   <span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>I suggest that you try  </span>http://gp14building.wordpress.com,  then click on Photos,  then <span style=”font-size: 9.5pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: #743399; border: 1pt none windowtext; padding: 0cm; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;”>GP14 Rigging Systems</span>

    This is our archive site (“we” in this context being the GP14 Owners Online Community),  and I am not sure whether it is open to non-members of that forum,  but try it and see.  If you can’t get in,  get back to me off-list at acapella13934(no spam)@talktalk.net (omit the “(no spam)” of course) and we can sort something out for you.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: setting up a spinnaker on mk1 GRP gp14 #4471
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I am fairly sure that my paper reviewing (early) spinnaker rigging systems is in the Members’ Library,  and it is certainly also on the GP14 Owners Online Community site.

    I hasten to add that in this case to a very large extent I merely collated the work of others,  much of it from “The Basic Boating Book” which used to be published by the Association but which I suspect is now out of print  –  although it would be worth an enquiry to the Office to see whether we have any copies left.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Technical Section ? #4470
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    You may also find this photographic record useful;  most of the various different ways in which the boat has been rigged over the years,  up to but not including the latest race rigs.

    <span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>http://gp14building.wordpress.com/about/photos/gp14-rigging-systems/</span&gt;

    This is from the archive site of the GP14 Owners Online Community.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Mast Step Rot – Help! #4469
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I am picking up this thread somewhat late,   not least because I have been off the forum altogether for perhaps a couple of months while initially away sailing and then caravanning,  and on top of that I have also had a major upgrade to the computer  –  and by my oversight this forum was one tab that I failed to reload when I got the machine back.

    <span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>Steve has already answered most of your queries,  but I pick up one point in which you specifically referred to myself;  cutting the keel,  and scarf jointing it.    Although the hog (the very substantial timber inside the boat,  along the centre line) is very definitely structural,  indeed it is the backbone of the boat,  the keel (the corresponding piece on the outside) is of very much lighter section.   Since the whole boat is massively strong,  some might even claim her to be over-engineered,  you can afford not to  worry too much about preserving the strength in the keel itself,  provided the hog is sound.</span>

    So,  yes,  if the hog is in good condition you can regard the keel as little more than a non-structural exterior capping piece.   So if you want the easy route,   take off the keel band first,  then a straight cut is a sufficient means of cutting at either end of the section that you need to remove.   Extract the screws (you may well need to strip the paint off the keel in order to locate them),  and if you are VERY lucky you may then find that the glue is on the point of failure anyway and you can simply insert a sharp chisel underneath it (as flat as possible to the plywood) and force it off in one piece.   Then when you later re-assemble,  you can indeed just refit this piece.

    However it is much more likely that the glue won’t fail,  and you will have to cut away the wood from the top,  paring it down with the chisel (or other method/s of your choice).   In that case,  when you come to reassemble you won’t have the piece you removed,  just a pile of shavings,  and you will need to let in the appropriate length of new wood.   In that situation you might as well go all the way,  cut the new timber longer than the gap,  and do scarf <span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>(a.k.a. scarph)</span><span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”> </span><span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>joints at either end;  it will be neater,  and even though strength here is not a major issue you might as well have the extra strength.    </span>

    A plain scarf joint is perfectly adequate if you use a good epoxy glue,  but I would also use screws to hold it while the glue sets,  and I would leave the screws in when the job is finished:     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarf_joint

    Ideally,  if you do that,  use a gradient of about 1 in 12,  i.e.  for every one inch thickness of the keel use twelve inches length for the taper (at each end).     I think you will in fact find that the keel is only about half an inch thick,  in which case the length of the taper should be about six inches at each end,  but I haven’t measured.    If you are absolutely confident that you are getting your mating surfaces perfectly true then you can use neat (unthickened) epoxy,   but if you have any significant gap to fill then thicken the epoxy with the appropriate microgranules.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Stopper or putty to hide wood screws #4468
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Brummer stopper was certainly the standard material for the job when the boat was built,  but as Steve rightly says it does tend to crumble in time,  although I confess that I sometimes still use it for very small areas.

    Another option,  an alternative to the colloidal silica,  for the epoxy route is sanding dust from the same type of wood.    My orbital sander has a dust collection facility,  and whenever I find myself doing a lot of sanding on bare wood I empty the contents of the dust bag afterwards into one of two screw top jam jars,  one for mahogany and similarly coloured woods,  and one for spruce or pine or similar.    Then on later jobs,  when I find that I need a matching filler,  I have the material ready to hand.

    You won’t get a perfect match,  but for small areas it is not bad.

    For situations where the screws are deeply recessed down parallel-bored doles (not V-shaped countersunk holes) wood plugs are superb;  you can use matching wood,  and can line up the grain parallel with the surrounding wood,  bond them in with epoxy,  and by the time they have been faired off and sanded and varnished even you yourself will sometimes have a hard job to locate exactly where they are.  The casual observer will normally never see them at all.    But for the particular situation you are describing I think you are right;  the holes won’t be deep enough to use this method.

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #4012
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I am pleased that your investigations thus far have refined your understanding of where the problem lies,  and that we seem to now have a firm diagnosis.     And I am pleased,  but not surprised,  to hear that you find yourself still busy in retirement;   so do I,  but at least we can be busy about out own chosen activities,  and to some extent we can control the pace …

     

    I think it very likely that you will now need to turn the boat over and remove the relevant section of the keel.    Not only will this allow you access to the underside of the ply,  and to the fastenings;   it will also then allow more scope for the ply to be temporarily sprung away from the hog while you attempt to dribble epoxy into the gap.    Incidentally I would expect that you will find it easiest to dribble the epoxy in if you put the boat on her side for this part of the operation;    she will remain semi-stable on her side,  but for safety and security you will need to arrange for an assistant to help you set her up in that position,  and arrange props to support her there.

     

    We both hope that you will find that you are dealing with nothing worse than a glue failure,  and that all the wood is still sound,  but that will of course need checking once you have the structure opened up.    Even with just a glue failure,  you are likely to find that the inside surfaces of the joint are now contaminated with gunge,  which will need to be cleaned out.   A hacksaw blade may be helpful here.

     

    I have not yet used the product,  but if you go for epoxy you may find that the WEST product SIX-10 is helpful for this job;    it  is a thickened epoxy which comes in a cartridge which fits a standard cartridge gun.      It comprises the separate components within the cartridge and they are mixed in the nozzle as it is extruded.    The benefit is that it can be injected into the crack.    At least one GP14 restorer in the eastern USA speaks very highly of it.   It is available in this country from the usual WEST suppliers.

     

    If you decide that you are unable to clean out the inside of the joint sufficiently for epoxy to have a fair chance of sticking,  but can make a secure mechanical joint with screws,  you might consider injecting Life-Calk polysuphide sealant as previously discussed instead of epoxy.   It will have zero structural strength,  which is why you will need a secure mechanical joint by means of screws,  but it is a superb sealant and will stick to almost everything,  even if you cannot get the surfaces properly clean and dry.   “Preferably apply to clean dry surfaces.   If necessary,  apply to reasonably clean damp surfaces.   In emergency,  can even be applied underwater.”

     

    If you find yourself faced with rotted ply in the region of the joint,  unless the rot is extremely localised the simplest solution may then be to cut out the damaged ply and let in a replacement piece;   cut out a piece of sufficient width to take the outer edge well clear of the hog,  so that you have easy access to the edge,  and then use a backing pad (bonded with epoxy) to make a good strong joint to the surrounding ply.

     

    Please be aware that I shall be away and incommunicado for most of April.

     

    Good luck.

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Rudder Blade Dimensions #3983
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    See the Class Rules (on this site,  in the Members’ Library);  the note at the end of Rule 5 gives the dimensions.

     

     

    Oliver

Viewing 15 posts - 661 through 675 (of 701 total)