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  • in reply to: Barn Find – Vintage GP14 No. 1514 #3967
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    And now for the visuals:

     

    Steve White has hosted the photos of the vessel on his sailing club site,  Cody SC;   they have no association with the sale of the vessel apart from wanting to help find a good home for her.

    http://www.codysailingclub.co.uk/a/?page_id=672

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Barn Find – Vintage GP14 No. 1514 #3966
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    FURTHER UPDATE:

     

    We are now certain that she has been in the ownership of just one family from new:   very probably one single owner from new,  although we cannot completely exclude the possibility that she may have been passed from father to son.

     

    I am also told that they were not the sort of people to compromise on quality,   so that tallies with both our deduction that she was built in-house by Bells and with the fact that she has been kept in apparently first class order.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Barn Find – Vintage GP14 No. 1514 #3964
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    UPDATE:     A remarkably rapid response from Hugh Brazier,  our Archivist,  with the digitised archive file attached,  shows that the builder is listed as Bell Woodworking.   So we both think that I am probably right in thinking that she was built by Bells themselves,  rather than supplied as a kit for home building.

     

    More information to follow as it comes in.

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #3953
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    ” You can afford to regard the keel as largely non-structural, so a straight cut at right-angles is fine; there is no need to do a scarf joint”

     

    Even better,  simple vertical cuts to remove the section of the old keel,  but if your woodwork skills are up to it then when you are ready to fit a length of new timber bevel down the exposed ends at that stage (about 1 in 12 gradient) and scarf in the new wood.    That will provide the added strength of a scarf joint,  while avoiding the unnecessary awkward attempt to saw an accurate very shallow bevel when removing the old timber.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #3951
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Thinking further about this,  once you are absolutely certain that the leak is between ply and hog,  and not between hog and case,  I think that you are probably going to have to turn the boat upside down,  remove the keelband (or at least that section of it.  and remove the relevant portion of the keel.

     

    Saw through the keel both ahead of the case and abaft it,  taking care to avoid (so far as possible) touching the surface of the plywood with the saw;     since there is a slight V to the bottom avoiding that will be a lot easier than if the bottom were flat.    You can afford to regard the keel as largely non-structural,  so a straight cut at right-angles is fine;  there is no need to do a scarf joint;    the internal framing together with the case will provide all the structural strength needed.    Strip off the paint on that part of the keel in order to expose the heads of the screws,  and remove the screws.   If you are lucky they will unscrew;   however you may well have to drill the heads off,  then cut off the shanks flush (and file them truly flush) once the keel is removed,  and use fresh screws in fresh holes when you reassemble.

     

    Again if you are very lucky you may now find that section of the keel lifts off;   much more likely,  however,   you may have to chisel it off,  and replace it with new wood when you have finished.   But the total amount of wood involved is not large.   Use a decent marine hardwood for any replacement.

     

    Once that section of the keel is off you have access to the ply,  and the joint between ply and hog,  and you can then get to work with epoxy and fresh screws.

     

    The original screws are likely to have (once) been brass;    with dezincification over the last several decades they are probably porous copper by now,  and structurally very weak,  and thus liable to either snap or break up altogether.   The choice for replacements is bronze (expensive,  and not always easy to obtain,  but Classic Marine can usually supply them) or stainless steel.   Stainless is the mainstream choice,  and they are readily available (and I think cheaper than bronze).    Reading between the lines of your post I suspect that preserving historical authenticity of a vintage boat is not one of your priorities,  so I would go for stainless.

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #3950
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    You seem to have eliminated one of “the usual suspects”,  and the next step would appear to be for you to now investigate further,  and perhaps try things out.

     

    I will very willingly give what help I can,  but in that context please be aware that I plan to be at sea from the beginning of April until Easter,  and then away again from immediately after Easter for the following 10 days or.    So I will not be able to respond to queries during that period.

     

    You may also find a lot of help on the GP14 Owners Online Community site;   link should be this site,  or go direct to https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GP14_Community/info

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #3947
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Yet another option,  by no means a proper cure but “first aid” which has sometimes effected at least a significant improvement.  is to clean up and dry off the entire area and then press a suitable grade of Sylglas tape along the full length of the outside of the join,  pressing it down firmly onto the wood.

     

    This was a popular “first aid” approach in the sixties,  and on many boats it effected a significant improvement that lasted for several years.

     

    I see that the range of Sylglas tapes has substantially expanded since I first knew it,  when there was at first only the one,   so check out the range and use your judgement if you decide to try this.

     

    http://www.sylglas.com/

     

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #3946
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Apologies if I was a bit crotchety!

     

    I am still not clear from your reply,  and I suspect that neither are you (yet),  whether the water is coming in between the case and the hog,  or between the hog and the plywood.   I think further investigation is needed to determine this.   I would suggest,  if convenient,  that this is best done by getting the boat absolutely dry inside and then floating her.    Then absolutely as soon as she goes in the water look to see where the water comes in;   is it above or below the hog?    If necessary,  mop out the first bit of water than comes in and observe again.   But you will need to observe the very start of the flow;  once you have enough water in the bottom to cover the hog it is too late to see where it is coming in.

     

     

    <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>If leak is between case and hog:</span>

    The detail of construction varies slightly between different boats,  and you won’t know what the detail is on yours without taking her apart!    But for a boat of this age <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>expect</span> to find the case bedded down onto Prestik tape or similar soft flexible bedding material,  pulled down onto it by a number of large woodscrews driven upwards through the ply and the hog (the longitudinal structural timber  –  the “plank”  –  on the inside,  between case and plywood).   Whether those screws also pass through the keel (the hardwood on the outside of the plywood),  or whether they lie underneath it and at least a section of the keel has to be taken off before you can gain access,  seems to have varied between builders.

     

    Given that the original construction relied on screws for mechanical strength,  and a soft semi-sticky bedding compound for sealing,  and given also that you now have a failure of that seal and that the wood is wet,  I do not think that epoxy has any fair chance of making a secure bond if you do the repair in situ.   That is why I recommended a polysulphide sealant for an attempt at an in  situ repair;   this may or may not work,  but it is worth a try.

     

    If of course you do decide to take the case out,  then (and only then) epoxy becomes an excellent choice for refitting it,  with everything cleaned up first,  and any rotten wood cut out and replaced.    But at this present stage I understand that you are hoping to effect at least a good temporary repair (good for a few years) without  the need to take the case out.

     

     

    <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>If leakage is between plywood and hog:</span>

     

    I have never personally met this problem,  although it is a known problem around the mast step as a result of either rot or excessive strain arising from too much rig tension.   When the boat was designed,  in 1949,  today’s ultra-high rig tensions were unknown,  so the boat was never designed to accommodate them.    The static load alone,  before the wind loading even starts,  results in a downward force of somewhere around half a tonne force (from memory;   I am not re-doing the calculation at this point) on the mast step at the maximum rig tensions in common use.

     

    If that is the problem,  then a different solution will be needed,  and it will almost certainly include doing the approved mast step conversion.   This is designed to strengthen the area around the mast step,  by spreading the load,  in order to allow modern rig tensions to be used,  but it is also a recommended structural upgrade whenever one is doing a repair to structural damage or rot in this area.

     

    I realise that this is not yet a definitive answer,  because we still need to establish the diagnosis more firmly,  but I hope it helps.

     

     

    Oliver

     

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #3943
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Is it just me,  and am I being just a crotchety old man?

     

    A member is in a degree of trouble with his boat,  and asks advice:    “All advice gratefully received.”

     

    The problem may indeed have already been answered in a document in the Members’ Library,  but failing to realise that is an easy omission.   So advice is duly given,  later the same day,  and with a follow-up first thing the following morning.

     

    The best part of three days later we have not even an acknowledgement.   Not only do we not know whether the advice is helpful,  or appreciated;   we don’t even know whether the member concerned has bothered to read it!

     

    Hardly an encouragement to others to help!

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #3937
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    And a further thought.     You are not actually being precise in referring to the join between the case and the plywood;  the hog comes between the two.     At first I had tacitly assumed that you were referring to the join between case and hog,  but if you are in fact referring to the join between hog and ply then this has nothing whatever to do with the case.

     

    It may be that you first need to establish precisely where the water is coming in.

     

    If the join which has given up is the one between hog and ply is this failing at the forward end,  around the mast step?   If so,  this indicates a structural problem,  possibly arising from too much rig tension for the (original) design,  and the solution to that is the approved mast step conversion  –  as well as of course rebedding the ply to the hog.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Leak in Mk 1 wood GP #3936
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    If you look at the Centreboard Case Refitting Procedure document in the Members’ Library you will find that before dealing with how to take the case out it discusses repair strategies leaving the case in situ;    see pages 2-4.    Depending on the condition of your boat you may find that this answers your problem;  at any rate it is worth a look.

    There is a reference there to the use of a top quality mastic;  this is called Lifecalk (yes,  that spelling;   it is an American product),  manufactured by Boatlife,  and I now understand that it is a polysulphide formulation (not a barium formulation,  as I thought when I wrote that paper).   Vastly better for this purpose than silicon sealant.

    Although this is an American product it is available in this country with a little online searching,  but I have recently been told that there is also a UK equivalent called Arbokol 1000.   I have no experience of the latter,  and I merely pass on the information on the basis that it might be worth checking out.

    Whatever mastic you use,  if that is your chosen way forward,  it seems that you need a marine grade polysulphide product,  and nothing else will do.

     

    Oliver

     

    in reply to: Forestay Failure #3681
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Steve White wonders whether it was hit by flying debris in the general melee,  which is entirely possible although there was nothing obvious on the ground.

     

    And I stand corrected on the wind force;  I am told that the Coastguard recorded 86 mph,  which is well into force 12!

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Forestay Failure #3680
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Oh dear,  formatting gobbledegook;  the website appears not to accept copy and paste,  although everything looks perfect in the typing window.    Let’s try again.

     

    All the real load is taken on the genoa halliard,  and the forestay is there only to keep the mast up while the boat is in the boat park;  right?

     

    Er,  …   …   OK,  it is also to support the mast in the event of needing to sail under main alone,  with no headsail hoisted.   But that situation is never going to arise with a fully furling headsail that is always left up (but furled when appropriate) whenever the boat is on the water.  Right?

     

    Well,  last night we got what the BBC news is describing today as hurricane force winds.  Actually I thought the forecast had been “only” force 10,  and I haven’t been conveniently able to check the actuality,  but force 10 is quite enough.

     

    I spent the morning at home repairing a fence that had blown down,  which is no great surprise in the circumstances.  Then I picked up a message from the sailing club to alert me to chaos in the boat park;  covers torn,  boats upside down,  and other damage.  I actually got away quite lightly;  A Capella was very well tied down to a pair of substantial ground anchors – although one of them has started to pull out of the ground,  but the forestay had snapped.   I regard it as pure luck that the mast was not damaged as a result;  I can only think that with the boom up and with a tie down strap over everything (and thus pulling downwards on the boom) the boom acted as a brace between mast and transom,  and thus gave sufficient support to save the mast.

     

    The forestay was in good condition, and the wire parted in mid span;  not at one of the terminations,  and not the lanyard at the bottom.

     

    This was just with the bare mast up.

     

    When I started sailing GP14s,  in teh sixties,  it was normal for forestays to be of the same diameter as the shrouds.   Modern practice seems to be to use thinner wire for the forestay;   my quick measurements today give 2 mm diameter for the forestay and 3 mm for the shrouds.   Those measurements are reasonably accurate,  although I did bother to use the vernier scale for greater precision;  if they are exact then the forestay has just under half the cross sectional area – and thus just under half the strength – of the shrouds.

     

    I am not prepared to risk the mast,  so my replacement forestay will be 3 mm …

     

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Just aquired GP14 #3657
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    “if it is not cranked for a reason”

     

    The only real reason for a cranked tiller is cosmetic.   They used to be very popular,  as a luxury item,  in the days when tillers were almost invariably wood,  but I have the impression that they have fallen out of favour for modern boats,  particularly with the advent of tubular fixed tillers.

     

    If making a straight one,  do check that the end will be high enough to clear the side decks;   angle it slightly upwards by adjustments to the top and bottom surfaces at the stock end if necessary.

     

    Good luck.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Just aquired GP14 #3645
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I should have added that the classic woods for laminating the tiller are alternate layers of a dark coloured one and a light coloured one,  primarily for cosmetic reasons.    Pine and mahogany (sapele is perfectly satisfactory) are a popular choice,  and that is the combination used by Ben Dallimore (Boats & Tillers Scotland) who builds bespoke laminated tillers professionally.

     

    If you can source other light coloured woods such as hickory,  or sycamore,  they would be more exotic options.   But probably not ash,  because of its tendency to rot.

     

    Oliver

Viewing 15 posts - 676 through 690 (of 701 total)