- This topic has 5 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 1 month, 3 weeks ago by
Oliver Shaw.
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August 20, 2025 at 6:22 pm #51003
Windychippy
ParticipantHi, It’s been a while since I last visited the Forum and I would like to search for topics regarding lowering and raising the rudder while on the water. Attached are 2 pics. One is of the system to pull the rudder into the down position. The other is a mock up of a possible position to attach a line to raise the rudder. Comments are very welcome.
The GP14 Web site has a totally new look to it and I can’t find a search icon on the Forum page. Would some kind person please explain to this non-tec savvy member how to search the forum.
Thank You.Attachments:
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August 22, 2025 at 12:25 pm #51010
Oliver Shaw
ModeratorTo the best of my knowledge we still don’t have a search function; however I can help you with details of the rudder arrangement.
To my mind, by far the best arrangement is two independent control lines; a downhaul and a separate uphaul. Both lines are led up to the head of the rudder stock, and then forward along the tiller, each of them through a fairlead and then to a clamcleat (see the photos referenced later). The cleat for the downhaul needs to be the unique CL 257 Auto-Release clamcleat, so that if the blade hits an obstruction (or the bottom, in shallow water) the cleat will instantly release, thus avoiding damage to either blade or transom.
Also adjust the tension on the pivot bolt so that the blade rises and falls very easily, but also so that there is JUST enough tension to prevent any lateral sloppiness. This is a very critical adjustment, and the “sweet spot” corresponds to just a very few degrees range of angle of the spanner on the nut; this is adjusted by trial and error, and is most easily done with the rudder mounted to the transom, with the boat ashore and on her launching trolley or road trailer. The aim is to be able to readily raise or lower the blade by means of the two control lines, while at the same time having zero sideways sloppiness.
I see from the photos that you already have the Auto-Release clamcleat; but for any other Members looking to set up the system for the first time, most dinghy chandlers stock them, and at a range of significantly different prices. https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=clamcleat+cl257&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
There is a sequence of photos on the GP14 Online Community site, showing how the control lines are arranged, and how they operate; https://groups.io/g/GP14onlinecommunity/album?id=246607. That site is independent of the Class Association, but we have very warm mutual relations, and each supports the other; indeed I personally run that Group. If you are not already a member of the Online Community I am not sure whether you can access the photos, and you may need to “join” the Group (it is free, and you would be welcome); but do let me know if there are any problems.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by
Oliver Shaw. Reason: Removal of comment that one may need to copy and paste the URLs; I have verified that they do in fact work as links
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by
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August 23, 2025 at 8:45 pm #51014
Windychippy
ParticipantThank You Oliver for getting back to me.
As you have seen in my first Pic. the auto-release clam cleat is fitted. What I would like to know is how to attach the uphaul line and best place where to fix. I would think of carefully fixing some sort of eyelet to the lower end of the concave section to the back edge of the rudder.
I forgot I was a member of the Online Community so went onto it but could not find any Photo’s. Probably my fault though because unless it stares me in the face I can’t understand how to search for it.
Regards
Dave R -
August 24, 2025 at 8:57 am #51015
Oliver Shaw
ModeratorDave,
The second link that I provided should take you direct to the photos!
However if you go onto any page (I think) of the GP14 Online Community you will see a sidebar on the left-hand side; most certainly that is visible on the Home page and also on any of the forum (message) pages. Near the bottom of that sidebar is the link to Photos, and also (immediately below that) Files – which are also worth browsing.
The second of your two photos shows the two control lines already attached to the blade, and apparently correct except that I question the location of where the uphaul is attached; I myself would have attached it somewhat further along the blade. The uphaul needs to still pull in the correct direction when the blade is fully raised, and still with sufficient leverage, and I question whether it does so in this instance.
However it is not entirely clear whether this is your own rudder or one that you have seen elsewhere; I was under the impression that your boat is a fairly new wooden one, and I tacitly assumed a wooden rudder stock, which is clearly not what is shown. If the stock in the photo is indeed your one you can ignore the next five paragraphs, and jump to the final paragraph, dealing with where to lead the lines to on the tiller.
However if the photo is not your own rudder, and you indeed have a wooden one, then depending on your rudder stock you may need to do some minor woodwork. But if I remember correctly from past correspondence you yourself built this boat, so you have the necessary woodworking skills in abundance.
The uphaul line should be attached to the trailing edge of the rudder blade, position not critical but I suggest around 1/3 to 1/2 way along the blade; drill a hole just large enough for the line to pass through, and either put a stopper knot in the end of the line after passing it through or (better) tie a bowline.
Lead the uphaul direct to the top of the rudder stock; you probably don’t require a fairlead, and it seems very much better not to use one, as when the blade is raised a fairlead on the back of the stock would arbitrarily pull the control line well out of the direct straight line, and with the blade fully raised it would introduce two undesirable and entirely unnecessary right-angle bends in the control line.
Then lead the line forward, underneath the centre of the tiller; you may already have a central channel in the stock for this purpose, already occupied by the downhaul, and if the channel is wide enough you can lay the two control lines side by side. The tiller itself rides on the sides of the stock, with the central channel (for the control lines) below the tiller.
You will need to ease the “corner” where the line turns through almost a right-angle to lead forwards. The “classy” way is to let in a sheave; but it will be sufficient to merely ease the corner to a sensible radius, provided you achieve a nice smooth surface, and then sand it and varnish it. Friction will not be a major consideration for the uphaul if you have a reasonable radius and a nice smooth vanished surface.
I suggest that you lead the two control lines to either side of the tiller, your preference as to which goes to which side. It is a good idea to pass each line through a fairlead on the tiller, and then put a stopper knot in the end of the line, so that when either control line is slack there is no risk of it disappearing behind the boat. With a fairlead plus stopper knot the line will always be accessible when it is required.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by
Oliver Shaw.
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by
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August 26, 2025 at 9:02 pm #51030
Windychippy
ParticipantOliver,
Thank you for your time in giving a comprehensive reply. You have pointed me in the direction I was inclined on. Noted is the importance of the smooth operation when raising the rudder. I understand why you say move the uphaul line further down the rear edge of the rudder but does this not mess with the flow of water over the blade, or is this something one puts up with if you want an uphaul system.Remember, as yet I’m not a sailor, Iv’e only been on the water once with “Neema” practising capsize drill (3 times.), then a spell of rowing after dropping the sail and boom. Then we then unwound the Genoa and to our pleasant surprise sailed very easily to windward back toward to base.
A lesson learnt when capsized is not to swim around to the centre board as the hull is so, so slippery with nought to grip hold off. In the end I went over the top from inside the Dinghy.
Could you please point me towards any pages on the Forum that give advise on when capsized.Kind regards
Dave R. -
August 26, 2025 at 10:32 pm #51031
Oliver Shaw
ModeratorDave,
You have raised a number of interesting points, and I doubt that this lends itself to a brief answer; more like an extended article!
First, you need to decide what you wish to achieve. You say that you are “not yet a sailor”, and I think that previously you have referred to grandchildren; so even if you are not yet my age I suspect that you are a late recruit to the sport and at least in your retirement years. That may well influence your choices.
Does the uphaul dragging in the water detract from the performance of the boat? The real question is not whether this has an effect, which it surely does,
but whether this is significant. If you were a twenty-something, who had been sailing competitively ever since starting in Oppies at age six, and had eyes on winning the next World Championship – and with a realistic expectation of at least being in the running for doing so, then I would agree that every last fraction of a percent effect on boat speed is important.But is that important for a pensioner, sailing with grandchildren? In my book it is not, but the choice must of course be yours.
For a youngster going after a major Championship win, the choice might even be a fixed rudder, rather than a pivoting one, and with all the hassle which that entails taken in its stride. (And, yes, in my student days, racing Fireflies for my college and university, we did indeed have fixed rudders, and we learned to cope with them. We also had no jam cleats for the jibs, because reactions were faster without … )
Personally, and especially for cruising (or any sailing other than top flight racing), I personally choose control over the rudder in preference to the conjectural last fraction of a percent in performance; but that is a matter of personal choice.
Now capsize recovery; a vitally important consideration. And I am not aware of anything on the Forum, although it is of course covered extensively in RYA courses. Two points here.
First, I remember from my youth, my late father telling me that “by the time the mast hits the water you ought to be already out on the centreboard”. Very sound advice, and although I have rarely capsized there have undoubtedly been a significant number over the years. But I recall only one which was not a “dry capsize”, i.e. in which I stepped over the side of the boat onto the centreboard as she went over, and stepped back again into the boat as she subsequently came up.
The problem for the crew is less of an issue; you may be able to scoop him/her up as you right the boat (which I understand is the RYA-recommended method, or you may be able to assist them back aboard once the boat is upright and you are aboard, by making a bight in a rope (e.g. the mainsheet, suitably tied off, or whatever.
Having said that, ten or fifteen years ago I was concerned whether I could get back aboard after a “wet” capsize, especially if single-handed, so I started carrying a rope boarding ladder. I can’t tell you how effective it was, because I never needed to use it; but it was there, just in case!
I have vivid recollections of an incident during the GP14 National Cruising Week in 2009, when on our return passage from an idyllic sail we had a completely unforecast force 7-8 off a major Anglesey headland. The one single-hander in the fleet capsized and inverted. And, in conditions in which I would have been most desperately struggling in those conditions, he succeeded in righting the boat, and resumed sailing. (Meanwhile I had broadcast a Mayday Relay on the VHF, and the lifeboat had been tasked to him; indeed they had eleven “shouts” that afternoon, ranging from Benllech to The Skerries.)
His method of righting the boat was instructive; he had a pair of righting lines permanently attached, one on each side of the boat. Each was attached adjacent to the shrouds, and stowed in a bag, with an overhand knot about every foot of the length, and a monkey’s fist at the end of the line. When capsized and inverted, he grabbed the righting line on whichever side of the boat he found himself, and hung onto the end, never letting go. He then swam round the stern of the upturned boat, flicked the righting line over the hull, and swam to the opposite midships point. Then he lay full length on his back in the water, with feet braced against the hull, and started hauling in on the righting line; given that situation, the boat has just got to come up! And she did. I immediately rigged a pair of lifelines for my own boat; I have never needed to use them, but they have been there, ready for use, just in case.
Having said all that, there does come a point where age has to be considered. I turned 80 almost 3 years ago, and two years ago I had a small handful of close calls when single-handing a GP14. All were due to age-related limitations of agility, allied to limited physical strength and stamina. So after almost a lifetime sailing the class I took that as a sign that it was time to retire from single-handing GP14s. My beloved A Capella is now in the custodianship of my godson, and I still sail her with him when I visit – and to the delight of both of us I still sail as skipper – thus far, at least. Whether I will still be skipper in another ten years, at age 92, nearly 93, of course remains to be seen!
Hope this helps,
Oliver
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