GP14 Sailing Forums Forum Boat history,moulders plates,sail numbers

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    • #13218
      form3d
      Participant

      Having just picked up my latest GP14 from Ulverstone and got her safely home to Norfolk (nervewracking trip down A590, M61, M62, A1M, A17, A47) after sharing the three lane highways in constant rain and road spray with 42 tonne lorries all the way, I hope to begin researching my new cruiser/club racer with the help of members and the Association archived history. She is an all fibreglass boat with moulded mahogany gunwhale rubbing strakes, 3 mahogany bench strips over foam buoyancy hull mouldings each side and mahogany thwart fastened to centreboard case and each side. Sail number if they are not second hand is 12493. I’ll begin looking for a makers/moulders plate on the hull somewhere once I’ve removed the floorboards, but a bit too wet to start that job at the moment …

    • #13219
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      Well done;   now enjoy!

      Very tentatively,  the mahogany parts suggest that she might be a Mk. III GRP boat,  and if the sail number is correct it seems to be consistent with that.

      Some photos,  particularly of the internal arrangement,  would be helpful.

       

      Oliver

    • #13237
      form3d
      Participant

      Thanks Oliver for your very prompt reply and welcome. That should be TWO mahogany bench strips either side and moulded buoyancy hull tanks under bow deck and side benches. The mast has no spreader and is stayed with shrouds through deck, with Cunningham but no kicker and a full transom mainsheet traveller. Still can’t find a maker/moulder’s plate, but have included 3 photos which didn’t go from my phone so hopefully will load this time.

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    • #13240
      form3d
      Participant

      …and the third internal

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    • #13243
      form3d
      Participant

      …and yet again another fairly identifiable feature is the transom tiller aperture which is a slightly vee’d oblong 100mm high and 130mm wide at top and 100mm wide at bottom, complete with chips at bottom either side where tiller has obviously been shoved over rather hard! … I’m on the GP14 yahoo open members forum by the way but there seems no way to search either that or the International class association  forum by subject, so as yet have had no joy finding anything definitive which may identify my boat or maker.

    • #13244
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      The photos are a slight puzzle.

      The presence of a moulding for a full width sheet horse (track) rules out her being a Mk III,  and that feature would seem to suggest either Mk I or Mk II.   I am fairly confident that she is NOT a Mk I,  because I don’t see the alloy tubes which serve as frames in those boats;    but a second identifying feature of the Mk I model is a single stern buoyancy tank right across the boat beneath the stern deck.

      Thus far the presence of the moulding for a sheet horse would seem to suggest Mk II,  in which case the sail number is incorrect (i.e. the sail is likely to be a second-hand one,  and the number was not changed when the sail was used on this boat).   The first of the Mk III boats was produced in 1977,  with sail number 11487.

      However the raised moulding beneath the side benches and also the centreboard case do not look quite like the Mk 2 boats that I remember having seen.   Additionally,  a common identifying feature of the Mk 2 boats is curved “vertical” boxed sections of GRP,  of rectangular horizontal cross section,  between the side buoyancy tanks and the underside of the deck;  and your boat does not have these.

      My best guess,  but I am very willing to be corrected by anyone who knows their GRP GP14s better than I do,  is that she may be a Mk 2 but built by Thames Marine,  or just possibly by McComb Boats,  rather than Bourne Plastics.

      According to the definitive text,  Roy Nettleship’s Brief History of the GP14 Hull,  “Thames Marine supplied their boats fully fitted out and ready to sail and built about 260 boats with sail numbers between 8012 and 9314.   About 50 hulls numbered between 10682 and 11325 were built in Northern Ireland by McComb Boats,  at first using Thames Marine moulds and later a set acquired from Bourne Plastics.”

      I have long been under the impression that the Thames Marine boats had a thumb wheel stainless steel adjuster for the centreboard friction device,  on the side of the centreboard case (starboard side?).   However I am not 100% sure about this,  nor about how definitive it is even if I am right.

      Hope this is of some help.

       

      Oliver

    • #13245
      form3d
      Participant

      Brilliant and knowledgeable, hope you’re in robust good health as this stuff is invaluable and we need to get it in a database for posterity! Your specific references to makers and to the Nettleson history are particularly useful for my further research. Never quite understood why there should be so much history easily available to car owners, but such patchy documented stuff for boats. And by the way, there’s a GP14 on eBay at the moment, “Dolphin” in Gwynedd, which looks very like mine. Many thanks for your considered replies.

    • #13265
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      Roy Nettleship’s article mentioned appears in 50 Years on the Water,  which is an anthology published by the Association in year 2000 to mark our 50th anniversary.   New copies are long since sold out,  and of course it is out of print,  but second-hand copies are sometimes still obtainable via the usual second-hand book dealers;   there is one copy currently listed on Amazon,  at a price,  and not many years ago I found several copies offered,  so more may yet appear again.

      A scanned copy appears on this site,  and also on the GP14 Owners Online Community site.

       

      Oliver

    • #13267
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      As a further detail,  amongst the Mark II boats those produced by Thames Marine were heavily outnumbered by the Bourne Plastics boats,  and the McComb boats were even more heavily outnumbered.   That is a likely reason why the Mark II boats with which I am most familiar have all been Bourne Plastics boats.    I then noted the unusual features of your one,  and thence made an educated guess;   but it remains no more than an educated guess.

       

      Oliver

    • #13269
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      If Dolphin in Gwynedd is indeed the same configuration as yours I am definitely going with Mark II;   and in my view almost certainly not by Bourne Plastics.    That does seem to confirm Thames Marine as the most likely builder.

      However there are others around,  perhaps most notably Steve White,  who know far more about the early GRP boats of the class than I do.

       

      Oliver

    • #13275
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      Moulder’s plate:  some years ago I found one on a Bourne Plastics Mark 1 boat on the side of the boat,  just under the foredeck,  port side,  high up.

      Even though yours is not the same model,  or builder,  in default of better information that might be a good place to start the search.   If not there,  I would next look under the floorboards abaft the centreboard case;   but try under the foredeck first,  if only because that is more readily accessible.

       

      Oliver

    • #13283
      Stewart
      Participant

      As holder of the GP14 result archive … I can tell you… wait for it…. your boat 12493 came 88th in the Midland Bell Championship in 2006. What about that then!!!

       

      Stewart

    • #13286
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      Thanks for coming in on this,  Stewart,  but unfortunately it seems that the sail number is incorrect.   The boat appears to be a Mk 2,  which seems to date her as not later than 1977,  but sail number 12493 was issued in 1983.

      We hope he can trace either a registered hull number or a moulder’s number (and moulder’s name),  which would enable a positive identification.

       

      Oliver

    • #13288
      form3d
      Participant

      We’re certainly getting closer to identifying her but I fear we may never put a definitive date/number on her as following a forensic search inside and outside of hull with a brilliant torch I can find no sign of a makers/moulders plate (thanks by the way for suggesting the two most likely locations) but no joy. I have put a rough sketch with a couple more details of construction which may help.

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    • #13290
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      Thanks for that sketch.   Is it possible,  at your convenience,  to obtain one or more photos of the deck support brackets?

      There is a Mark II boat which I am fairly sure is by Bourne Plastics on eBay at the moment;    item no.  152793983682.   If you have a look at her I am sure you see the differences from your boat in the way of those deck support brackets,  the mounting of the side benches (on raised GRP in your boat,  but on mahogany spacers in the Bourne Plastics boat),  and the capping of the centreboard case (immediately ahead of and abaft the thwart).   However this boat does have the stainless steel thumb screw friction adjuster for the centreboard,  which I had thought (perhaps wrongly,  after all I am really a wooden boats man  …) was primarily associated with Thames Marine rather than Bourne Plastics.

       

      Oliver

    • #13302
      steve13003
      Participant

      I know it is a simple check, but have you looked under the floor boards in the area aft of the centre board case where should be a plate with the hull / sailnumber or the sail number may be engraved on the hull

      Steve

    • #13303
      form3d
      Participant

      Very different deck supports than mine which are almost concealed unless you peer at the underside of the side decks and are principally a means of bonding the hull sides to the deck. Thanks Steve for the heads up on the the possibility of the hull number being stamped into the hull aft of the centreboard case. I’ve had the floor boards out for re-varnishing but didn’t notice anything as the interior glass has had a fairly rough coat of paint. Will examine more carefully tomorrow and will photograph my deck supports.

    • #13305
      form3d
      Participant

      Deck support bracket, (camera lens about 5 inches from bracket and level with side seat moulding) … hullfloor with an interesting 3×1.5 inch raised plastic oblong about 16 inches aft of centre board case (unfortunately this has been painted and a screw fastening from the skeg rubbing protection penetrates it). I can feel no raised or indented surfaces on this small plate and I’m thinking about how I might remove the paint without damaging anything that may have been printed on its surface. Centerboard case with no sign of thumbwheel mounting either side (the present board is positioned with jam cleats forward and aft). And lastly; aft centreboard case where some sort of cleat or jammer has been removed, or possible a kicking strap fixing. All posts on the subject have been much appreciated by the way.

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    • #13308
      form3d
      Participant

      And the two that didn’t load …

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    • #13311
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      Removing paint from the identification plate:   I don’t know of any fully reliable method,  but with the corresponding problem on my bigger boat I had some success with very careful use of paint stripper.

      Apply it,  and leave it the bare minimum of time to soak in  –  err on the side of too short rather than too long  –  and then remove it as gently as possible,  so that you remove ideally just the top layer.   Then repeat as necessary,  removing just a little at a time.

      Ideally choose one of the more gentle paint strippers,  and if you are buying specially I would read the instructions to see what jobs they are formulated for;   some are specifically formulated for the more easily damaged substrates,  at the expense of being less powerful at stripping the paint.   Perhaps use steel wool,  used gently,  to remove it,  rather than a scraper.   Wear protective gloves!

      Good luck.

       

      Oliver

    • #13312
      form3d
      Participant

      Just found a boat with many features identical to mine, on the Yahoo Owners Community site! The centreboard casing looks identical, as do the side deck supports. This is Faugh A Ballagh, obviously from Ireland, sail number 8077.

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    • #13316
      form3d
      Participant

      Eureka. A bit of gentle rubbing with acetone soaked cloth and her build/sail number is 8385 putting her firmly in Nettleship’s “Early Plastic Boats” extract as a Thames Marine.  I guess this would just about be enough to re-register her with the class association and get the sail number id sorted? In any case, thank you very much for spending so much time on this one. Your help has been absolutely invaluable. The only question I have left is: why on earth would anyone rudely paint over a makers plate?

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    • #13322
      Oliver Shaw
      Moderator

      Excellent,  and I am delighted that my guessed identification has proved correct.

      I am reasonably sure that this is not merely a build number,  but the registered hull number;   but do check that point with the Association.   Now that you have this data you have a positive identification,  and can ask the Association for our digitised records of her.   And you can indeed re-register her with the Association.

      Why would anyone paint over a maker’s plate?  –  It happens all too often,  and not only with boats.   Usually because whoever did the paint job did not appreciate,  or have any personal interest in,  the data in question;  and simply could not be bothered to either paint round it or mask it off.   Yes,  I know;  Philistines!  …

       

      Oliver

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