- This topic has 6 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 5 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
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12/05/2014 at 6:10 pm #4308doconnellParticipant
I turned over my 1980 gp 14 mark 1 recently to repaint the hull. Condition of the paint was generally good and I was thinking I could get away with spot painting a few cracks and bringing her down the club to get some badly needed sailing hours under my belt. (Only my third summer sailing so I still consider myself a novice). However, in 2 areas either side of the keel band over what I now know to be the mast step (already converted) the ply was spongey under the good paint. Rot!!! I dug away the soft wet stuff with a screwdriver and the attached photo shows my current predicament. 2 holes in the hull! the rest is now dry and seems solid.
My question is (1) what do I do now and how much more ply do I cut away to insert new material. (2) how do I stop this happening again. The water must have come from the centre board case internally as the outside paint looked perfect. I was spending the spring varnishing the deck to perfection and never lifted the floorboards to check the floor.
Any assistance greatly appreciated here in Dublin. Dermot.
P.s. anyone know how to get the centre board out?
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12/05/2014 at 10:08 pm #4311steve13003Participant
Hi I will try to point you in the best direction.
First if you need to take out the centre board and I presume you mean the cb case, this is a very major job not to be undertaken without some detailed preparation. Details on how to do this can be found in the library under the members tab on this web site. If all you need to do is removal of the cb itself simply undo the bolt and slide the board out.
Second question on how far to chase out the rot, I would normally recommend that you carefully identify the location of the frames either side of the rotten areas cut out along the centreline of the frame, missing any screws, cut a new piece of ply to fit the area cut out and fit with epoxy glue and filler. The area you are repairing may need you to remove all or part of the keel to ensure the new ply to the hog.
i would also suggest that you buy a set of the plans for the construction of a series 1 wooden GP14 from the office, this will help you to understand how the boat is constructed
Hope all goes well Steve Corbet
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13/05/2014 at 12:44 pm #4314doconnellParticipant
Thanks Steve for your prompt reseponse. This was my first post and delighted to see what helpful bunch GP 14 sailors are!
1. I will source the frames as you suggest and stop there before replacing 2 rectangular panels with marine ply as soon as I can find a stockist in Dublin. Is a backing piece still essential? If so which piece gets applied first ( or is it best to stick them both and apply together?)
What’s the best expoxy & filler for the job for a beginner like me?
2. How do I know if I need to face the terrifying prospect of cutting the keel? ( I seem to remember an Oliver Shaw post about this advising the use of a scarf joint). (assume I can just put the old piece back in once finished)
3. The metal keelband will have to come off. Anything I need to be careful of bearing in mind there are several screwholes which may leak when I refit it? What do people seal it with? Also the previous owner painted it but it flakes easily on impact especailly where the bow meets the trailer at the front.
4. I will remove floorboards as you suggest to remove and inspect the centreboard and also hopefully find the source of the leak so as to stop all of this happening again.
All help greatly appreciated.
thanks,
Dermot -
14/05/2014 at 10:03 pm #4320steve13003Participant
I’ll try to answer your questions in order
1 if you work out where the frames are which surround your rot you then need to cut the old ply along the centre line of the frames, this helps you to replace the new ply with the same curves as the original ply. Because you are using the frames to support the new ply edging or backing pieces are not needed. As for which epoxy to use either SP 106 or a WEST product will be easy go use make sure you buy a pack which includes measuring pumps or syringes, always measure the quantities carefully and at the recommended temperatures.
2. If you need go cut out part of the keel a scarf joint will allow the strength to be maintained over the rebuilt joint
3. The screw holes should not be a problem as the screws are a tight fit in the wood, all old holes should be filled with an epoxy filler marine grade Plastic Padding is easy to use.
if the paint is flaking it is a sign that a previous owner has not prepared the hull by rubbing down the paint before painting. Given the amount of work you will be doing in replacing the rot I would recommend a completed stripping of all the paint, refill all screw holes as the old filler will pop out as you remove the paint, then repaint with good quality paint prime, two coats undercoat and one or two topcoats.
Steve
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18/05/2014 at 9:03 pm #4351doconnellParticipant
Great advice Steve. I couldn’t figure out why the ply was so spongey around the front of the centreboard. The paint on the hull. Then I sent to remove the centreboard and noticed water may have been coming in at the hole for the Centreboard bolt. Also I noticed after taking out the centreboard – water may have been coming in at the front of the centreboard case and the back of the centreboard case near the first few inches of each. Now that I have the centreboard out I want to seal it in situ. I will dry it out for a week and then apply some kind of sealant and dribble it where i cant physically reach and let gravity work.
Actually , Apart from the metal strip along the spine the rest of the bull paint is in great condition so I had only planned on stripping it above the rotten pieces and maybe an extra inch round them. however there some circles above screws. Some are flakey but most are just circles with paint intact but slight raised appearance. . Should I strip these And refill. If I am doing that should I strip the whole hull. If I am stripping the whole hull, should I epoxy it too?
Dermot
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18/05/2014 at 9:11 pm #4353
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04/06/2014 at 9:15 am #4469Oliver ShawModerator
I am picking up this thread somewhat late, not least because I have been off the forum altogether for perhaps a couple of months while initially away sailing and then caravanning, and on top of that I have also had a major upgrade to the computer – and by my oversight this forum was one tab that I failed to reload when I got the machine back.
<span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>Steve has already answered most of your queries, but I pick up one point in which you specifically referred to myself; cutting the keel, and scarf jointing it. Although the hog (the very substantial timber inside the boat, along the centre line) is very definitely structural, indeed it is the backbone of the boat, the keel (the corresponding piece on the outside) is of very much lighter section. Since the whole boat is massively strong, some might even claim her to be over-engineered, you can afford not to worry too much about preserving the strength in the keel itself, provided the hog is sound.</span>
So, yes, if the hog is in good condition you can regard the keel as little more than a non-structural exterior capping piece. So if you want the easy route, take off the keel band first, then a straight cut is a sufficient means of cutting at either end of the section that you need to remove. Extract the screws (you may well need to strip the paint off the keel in order to locate them), and if you are VERY lucky you may then find that the glue is on the point of failure anyway and you can simply insert a sharp chisel underneath it (as flat as possible to the plywood) and force it off in one piece. Then when you later re-assemble, you can indeed just refit this piece.
However it is much more likely that the glue won’t fail, and you will have to cut away the wood from the top, paring it down with the chisel (or other method/s of your choice). In that case, when you come to reassemble you won’t have the piece you removed, just a pile of shavings, and you will need to let in the appropriate length of new wood. In that situation you might as well go all the way, cut the new timber longer than the gap, and do scarf <span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>(a.k.a. scarph)</span><span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”> </span><span style=”line-height: 1.5em;”>joints at either end; it will be neater, and even though strength here is not a major issue you might as well have the extra strength. </span>
A plain scarf joint is perfectly adequate if you use a good epoxy glue, but I would also use screws to hold it while the glue sets, and I would leave the screws in when the job is finished: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarf_joint
Ideally, if you do that, use a gradient of about 1 in 12, i.e. for every one inch thickness of the keel use twelve inches length for the taper (at each end). I think you will in fact find that the keel is only about half an inch thick, in which case the length of the taper should be about six inches at each end, but I haven’t measured. If you are absolutely confident that you are getting your mating surfaces perfectly true then you can use neat (unthickened) epoxy, but if you have any significant gap to fill then thicken the epoxy with the appropriate microgranules.
Oliver
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